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Dear Malaysia, Did You Really Just Kick Us Out?

    Last Updated on August 22, 2021 by Kirsten Raccuia

    In my last blog, I wrote about how Mark and I were planning to leave Malaysia temporarily. Go to the US and Mexico and see how we feel, come back to Malaysia with new eyes. Feeling better, refreshed and regrouped. We were going to be gone for a while but come back and see how things are.

    Well, apparently, Malaysia has other things in store for us. I usually love a surprise! But not this one.

    Following a nearly 2-year suspension of the MM2H 10-year visa program, we just got an insight into the new proposed requirements. And honestly, they suck. Big time. Now Malaysia is messing with people’s futures. And it’s not ok.

    But I digress. Let me explain a few things…

    Our current MM2H program—our grandfather has left the building

    In 2017, when we applied for MM2H, the main requirements were that we were earning RM10,000 (US$2400) monthly, and we had to put a fixed deposit of RM150k (US$35k) in a Malaysian bank.

    We were supposedly grandfathered into those original rules. Meaning those requirements were never supposed to change. So, every 10 years, when we renewed, we’d have the same rules we agreed to initially, in perpetuity.

    However, all that changed this week when the MM2H program announced drastic alterations.

    Now, I have to admit, the program has not been officially, formally changed. But it was announced in the media and in a press conference for all the world to see. So as far as I’m concerned, the writing is on the wall.

    These supposed changes are not just for new applicants, but for current MM2H holders, like us.  Malaysia, how could you? I trusted you.

    No, I don’t think you owe us anything other than what you promised us in our contract. In most places, a contract can be relied upon as a bond. But clearly, here, it’s just toilet paper.

    The Most Significant Proposed Changes Include:

    1. Minimum monthly offshore income quadrupled — from RM10,000 (US$2400) to RM40,000 (US$9500).

    Let’s be real, if you were pulling in US$10k monthly, you probably wouldn’t be looking to move elsewhere to save money or lower your cost of living. You can live pretty damn well off that in any country.

    2. A 567% increase to the fixed deposit.

    Initially, for us, it was RM150k (US$35k), now it’s RM1 million (US$236k). Who’s putting a quarter of a million USD in a Malaysian bank just to hope it doesn’t devalue?  No one, or very few, that’s who.

    By the way, points 1 and 2 are both necessary. It’s not one or the other.

    3. It went from a 10-year renewable visa to a 5-year term.

    So, let me get this straight, you want more money, but you’re giving us less time? And the contract that we have to sign is a good as fake news. Doesn’t sound like a win-win.

    4. Processing fees

    Now there will be a RM5000 (US$1180) fee for the principal and RM2500 (US$590) for the dependent. Until now, there was no processing fee. Most of us used an MM2H agent to which we paid fees. This either forces us to pay two sets of fees or forgo the use of an agent. This isn’t a deal-breaker, but where is this coming from?

    Wouldn’t this take jobs away from the agents who are already struggling since the program has been on hold for so long? And for what it’s worth, having an agent handle this for us was the best thing we did.

    5. Increase in renewal fees

    Renewals went from RM90 (US$21) to RM500 (US$118) per person per year. So, if your passport expires 3 years into the 10-year term, you need a new MM2H visa put in your new passport. You’ll have to pay RM630 (US$149) for the remaining seven years. But now that fee would be RM3500 (US$826). By all means, also not a deal-breaker, but it feels like a money grab.

    6. The Deadline

    Depending on where you read the terms, it’s unclear whether we have until October 2022 to prove up all this money before being forced to leave. Or we have until the end of our current 10-year term, plus one extra year. As if that one year will give us the much-needed time to come up with the new requirements. After breaking our contracts, it’s the least you could do.

    Malaysia, you’re a mensch.

    What these changes mean to us

    a sign reading "difficult roads lead to beautiful destinations"

    I recognize that us MM2H’ers are unimportant to you, Malaysia. In the grand scheme of things, we don’t bring in a ton of money. As my friend Kerry put it, “We are nothing but a pimple on an elephant’s ass.”

    But I also know you are hurting. The people of Malaysia are hurting.

    So, what are you doing? You’re pushing away good people who help boost the economy. As a result, you went from being one of the top retirement destinations in the world to being on the bottom of that list overnight.

    To all the people who have been here for years, you are saying, Yeah, we know you’ve been here for a while. And we welcomed your kind way back when. But now we want an upper echelon of people here. We want higher quality, and you’re not it. So don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

    Malaysia, you vetted us in 2017 and deemed us worthy to come in under your terms. Fair enough. You absolutely should choose who comes into your country.

    And we are model citizens. We come and rent high-end condos, buy local cars and scooters, shop locally, eat locally. We support the families and businesses around us by spending our money there. And happily. Additionally, many expats are very generous and give freely and openly to charities.

    We are precisely who you want to live in your country. We’ve bought Malaysian health insurance, we are long-term renters, we pay into the country every day. But that’s not good enough. We are not the quality of expats you are seeking.

    I’m not mad you are making new rules for future participants. That’s your prerogative.

    What I’m angry about is that you are going back on our contracts. You lied to us. And contracts mean nothing. I’m angry that you are going back on your word.

    What about the expats who have made a life here, under your terms—the ones we’ve abided by?

    You are changing those terms and making them unobtainable for the vast majority of us. So, unless we can come up with loads more cash, we are not welcome.

    If a majority of the expats leave, what happens to the real estate industry? The landlords? The places that are already struggling to keep their doors open since the pandemic? There surely will be a trickle-down effect.

    I get you want to boost the economy, but you’re being short-sighted by kicking out the people who are currently here spending and adding value to the community.

    People are reeling. Many expats living here on a fixed income can’t afford to go back to their home country. Now what? Scramble to find a new country to move to at 75 years old? But I guess that’s not your problem.

    The Final Say

    neon sign, saying "this is the sign you've been waiting for."

    We went from being very welcome here to basically being kicked out of the country.

    Yes, they haven’t “officially” made the ruling, but they went on TV and held a press conference, so I’m inclined to believe them. Even if they walk back the new rules for current holders, who’s to say they won’t revert again in the future. They pulled the rug out from under us, and the trust is gone.

    As far as I’m concerned, Malaysia, you can’t take it back. We can’t un-hear your plans.

    Before, I was saying goodbye, but now, you are saying good riddance to us. Before, my heart was broken, now I’m pissed off.

    79 thoughts on “Dear Malaysia, Did You Really Just Kick Us Out?”

    1. Kristen,

      It’s May 2023, I believe KL Youtuber Andrew Taylor has said that the original MM2H holders will continue with original rules. So you are OK !
      But, the newcovers are subject to the expensive MM2H rules.
      But, the government may be reconsidering this.
      Can you update this blog post to reflect your MM2H status is safe ?

      Thanks 🙂

    2. Just came across this via a link from Jim Baker’s page. I think they have excused existing MM2H holders from everything except 1) a increase in the yearly fee and 2) a rule that you have to be in the country for 90 days a year. My wife and I retired in Malaysia a few years ago, hoping to stay long term, but when our pass is up in seven years we will definitely have to move. These are more like requirements to live in Monaco, not SE Asia.

    3. I lived on my sailboat for several years after sailing from Canada. The nice thing about a floating asset was that I could always move. There are many places for fixed location expats. Places like Panama,Costa Rica, as well as European countries like Spain or Portugal, have good opportunities for retirees. I moved to the Philippines in early 2013 and was amazed by the hoops you have to endure not only with land ownership but also with regular immigration changes. I moved from there back to Canada…paradise!

      1. Hi n mackenzie, If I knew how to sail I might consider it! It must have been fascinating, I think there are hoops to jump through to live in any country and I get that. There should be, But for you, it sounds like home is your best place!

    4. Very interesting blog. We were definitely thinking of a move to Malaysia, but after reading this, seems like Malaysia’s country risk might be too great.

      I hope you find a great spot for your next chapter in life. Philippines perhaps?

      1. Hi Alvin, Malaysia is def an incredible place. And now they have walked back to the old rules for existing visa holders. It’s def uncertain times all around. I hope you find the right place for you if Malaysia isn’t it. Take care!

    5. How come MM2H folks do not just change to Sarawak 5 year visa program (SM2H), IF you are allowed to live in Western Malaysia, like KL or Penang still, and SM2H is still active (since program did not close during Covid and $ requirement stayed same, unlike MM2H) ? Seems like that is a solution instead of Expat mass Exodus? Let me know if I am missing something. If there is better website for SM2H on confirmation that you CAN live in Penang (or what are caveats), that would be helpful. I was planning on retiring in MY, so this will be helpful to know. Thanks!

      1. Hi Alex, A lot of people will do that and hope they don’t change those rules as well. The reason for the mass exodus is the loss of trust and the feeling of being unwanted. Yes, Sarawak is a different set of rules but it’s still Malaysia and once the trust is gone it’s hard to regain it.

    6. First I want to say I have been following your blog for about a year and I have found it informative and interesting, so thank you for all your work! I am sorry that you and so many others will be left in a difficult position. I hope you will keep blogging wherever you roam! My wife and I will retire overseas in three years and Malaysia was at the top of our list, but now we will be looking elsewhere.

      1. Hi Christopher, Thank you! I will def keep blogging. There is a big world out there and I want to share what I learn.

        As far as Malaysia goes, yes it’s heartbreaking and confusing but there are rumors that those criteria won’t go through now. So who knows. There is also the possibility of the Sarawak 5 year visa program (SM2H) so if you are still interested in Malaysia, the criteria are very different, much lower, and you could still live anywhere in Malaysia.

        What I’ve learned is that you should always have a plan b. Or at the very least a pathway to permanent residency if it’s somewhere you want to make your forever home.

        Best of luck to you!
        Kirsten

        1. Thanx for an interesting blogg. Read about dos and don’ts in Malaysia. Very imformative. Sorry to hear that U r “forced out” from Your stay in M.
          Me and my 3 daughters (all+20) are going for a 16day holiday trip to Saba in dec-22. First stop – Kota Kinabalu. I have prebooked hotel the first 4nights.(can be changed though) Is it difficult to find cheap hotels once we are there?
          My wife/their mum died in dec -21, caused by a massive stroke. This trip is an important part of the healing process and a gather together. Our aim is adventure e.g. snorkelling,diving, jungle trekking, rafting etc. I would love tips about where to go, what to do n’ what to avoid. We’re prepared to fly locally if needed. /Matti

          1. Hi Matti,

            I’m sorry to hear about your wife, and I hope this trip is everything you want it to be for you and your girls. I don’t think it is difficult to find hotels, per se, but why waste time on that when you could be exploring and adventuring? Especially since so many places have cancelation policies now.

            Check out this blog about KK. Hopefully, it will help.

            https://sandinmycurls.com/kota-kinabalu-itinerary-the-ultimate-5-day-adventure-guide/

    7. A very well written article, sums up the changes & feeling of betrayal for us as MM2H pass holders.
      Feedback from our agent is that’s it not yet final , especially in light of the change of government. but, as has been said in other comments, the changes have been communicated,
      “trust hard earned is easily lost” whatever happens the Malaysian government will have taken a major hit to its credibility.

      We’re 4 years into our 10-year visa and are scheduled to do the “visa swap procedure” next year as we get new passports. We lived in Malaysia for 3 years (I worked there), love the people, country & food, we have visited yearly since I retired until covid happened, I certainly won’t be paying the increased fees.

      I feel especially sad for people who have made Malaysia their “ONLY” home. Hard not to feel betrayed…

    8. Hi Kirsten, i am so sorry to hear about that latest development – as you know we had plans to move to Penang as well…. „Luckily“ for us those plans changed 10 weeks ago when my husband got an offer for a new position in Dallas, TX – so we are in a limbo now, waiting for the US to open up their borders and granting visa again…
      I hope you both will find a perfect place for you in the world.
      But i am sorry to say these last 18 months with the pandemic has shown us, how easily and fast things/rules can change and that contracts could be broken anytime.
      Malaysia looked like a really good place to stay and they had a great reputation – it is really sad that they don’t give a damn.

    9. Elaine D Wikkramatilleke

      So sorry to hear this. We had all hopes and plans to move there in the next few years and the only reason we didn’t proceed was because our trip got cancelled due to the pandemic.
      You guys will find a nice place soon. There are beautiful countries that are seeking the dollar.
      Good Luck.

    10. Very good article and very sincere and factually correct comments.
      Indeed foreign spouses with a Long Time Visa are currently not welcome. Immigration director reject their entry request. Like MM2H persons they have only a house in Malaysia, hence Malaysia government kicks their foreign spouses out. .

    11. Very good article and very sincere and true comments.
      Indeed foreign spouses with a Long Time Visa are currently not welcome. Immigration direction reject their entry request. Like MM2H persons they have only a house in Malaysia, hence Malaysia government kicks their foreign spouses out…

    12. As you said: “Even if they walk back the new rules for current holders, who’s to say they won’t revert again in the future.'” The Government can NO LONGER BE TRUSTED, and that includes Sarawak’s SMM2H which too can be uprooted, because Malaysian politicians are all millionaires living in the stratosphere disconnected from the middle income rakyat and middle income expats.

    13. This is terrible news ! My husband has MM2H visa ! This is the worst news a MM2H holder could receive! Why is government making so difficult for everyone!

      1. New reasons have been released for changing the Malaysia MM2H visa. They are citing expat’s bad behaviour and lack of moral virtue in country. It’s reported they are not interested in Western views (citing problems with drinking, nudity, sexual orientation) and are purposefully pushing people out with the recent changes made to the program.

        Remember, the MM2H visa was a “Social Visit Pass” not a Permanent Residence and they can revoke or change the rules whenever they like, as written in the visa application.

        1. Hi Polly, I believe I know the article you refer to and is factually incorrect and an opinion article written by some dude who doesn’t live here! So maddening! That wasn’t released by the government. It’s a 3rd party website. If I’m wrong, add the link here so I can check it out, please.

          Yes, mm2h isn’t a PR. They can change the rules before you are approved, but one of the selling points of having the MM2H is being grandfathered into the rules when we applied. So that’s a whole different story.

    14. Beautifully put Kirsten. I could not have put it better myself. Good luck with your future plans, may even see you in Portugal with a whole bunch of others in the near future.

    15. So sad to read this. When greed takes over, this is the result, happens when government/politicians become untrustworthy and unprincipled . I wished you and Mark – Safe journey back! Please remember Covid-19 is still very much raging here in the US, be cautious when you are back.

    16. Not to mention the endless promotion of all things Malaysia you have done everywhere. You have been a number 1 fan and promoted the country as a place to live and travel to. Not cool Malaysia. Dump that place. Move to Maine.

    17. Like so many others, I planned to make Malaysia my home after retiring in late 2022. Now I no longer qualify so I’m looking at other countries on my short list. It’s actually helpful for me as I now realize I want to travel more in Europe than in Asia so I’ve shifted my focus to Portugal, Turkey and Eastern Europe. Even if Malaysia relaxes the rules, I think retirees no longer trust the MM2H program. The only bright side, if there is one, is that condo owners may offer steep discounts to short-term (under 90 days) renters to keep their units occupied so I may still visit Malaysia in the future.

    18. This is so heartbreaking. I feel so bad for you and Mark. This sucks so much. Trust has been broken. But when one door closes, another will open.

    19. It hurts my heart to think of all our friends who will be scrambling finding another home. It’s not just happening in Malaysia. Where is a safe, affordable alternative? Deep sigh…

    20. This was a massive backstabbing. What are the current visa holders supposed to do, especially those with real estate? Who’s going to buy up their houses and condos in this economy, now that the foreigners are being forced out and with the average Malaysian not being able to afford it?

      Retiring in Malaysia was a pet dream of ours, and yes, there is a chance the government will backtrack the changes. But the trust is completely gone.

      $10k USD a month? We could retire in Hawaii and keep and use the social services like Medicare. Why would any of us bother with the hassle of moving abroad at that point?

      I’m so sorry you’re in this situation, Kirsten. Please do keep us updated on what you will do going forward.

      1. Hi S Kim, The current mm2h holders with real estate are pretty screwed.

        You hit the nail on the head.

        I’ll def be blogging about life and our future when I have a clue what that means and looks like.

    21. Great to know article and heartbreaking because we were planning on a long-term move there. I also heard Thailand is doing something similar and so I say to Malaysia and Thailand to shove it, we will go to some country where we’re wanted like Costa Rica. Mexico is a great place as well and almost as much history to explore. Good luck whatever you decide to do!

    22. Comment Well, it‘s a tad ironic when foreigners are perceived as morally corrupt in Malaysia given Malaysia’s sadly somewhat tainted image abroad after the recent scandals.
      Anyway, the economic impact of the program shouldn’t be underestimated:
      Let’s just conservatively assume that 30’000 out of approximately 55’000 visa holders will leave/not renew their visa and retract their deposits of again conservatively 200’000.- RM.
      That means 6’000’000’000.- RM would leave the country’s banking system. Add to that other investments many of these visa holders have made in Malaysia mostly for real estate.
      My estimate would be that the economic damage is easily 20 billion RM. Of course this doesn’t include money for living costs that is not being spent in Malaysia anymore but elsewhere.
      I can’t see any substantial number of new takers to make up for even a fraction of this amount.
      Malaysia is a wonderful country with hospitable and friendly people but the world is big and beautiful and people who can fulfil the new criteria have ample choices.
      One of their first and foremost prerequisites many retirees would formulate for the choice of a country are in my belief and experience also:
      – to feel truly welcomed not only by the people but also by the government of the country in question. That certainly used to be the case in Malaysia.
      – to maybe even be given a clearly defined path to taking up (permanent) residency or even citizenship (as it is the norm in most countries). Something which sadly earns you only laughter and disbelieving looks in many Asian countries (except Singapore of course).
      – to have an reasonably unbiased and efficient legal system and police force, free of political interference.
      – to adhere to non-discriminatory policies.
      Apart from all that I do think that the de facto abolition of the program will also negatively affect foreign direct investments and tourism as it sends a signal that foreigners are not truly welcome anymore – except for their money of course.

      1. Basil

        So so true and probably very conservative estimates. You also mention loss of tourism income how many of our family and friends come and visit us in Malaysia over the years. This will be another huge loss for the Malaysian economy.

        Regards Trevor

    23. Well written and conveys the message to those who need to hear it in authority . To add to loss of trust will be loss of intangible goodwill meaning foreign investment I would think .
      My understanding mm2h got caught in the crossfire between ministry of tourism who promotes and encourages this program and home ministry /immigration who regulate control and restrict immigration . So two opposite objectives . Guess who was put in charge again … we all saw delays etc last time immigration was in charge to new applicants .
      Shot the elves in the foot , home goal during economic pandemic 😷 but let’s hope the pimple on the ass might grow into a boil that needs attention very shortly !

      1. Thank you, Chris. You are correct with the two different departments vying for control over the MM2H program. And you are too funny, I might steal your line about the boil, but promise to give you credit!😉

    24. Great article Kirsten, feeling for all you guys and feeling a little relieved with our decision, which wasn’t an easy one

    25. Unfortunately a State, any State, is unreliable: it can revert laws that were promised in form of contract. They do not act as private person who would incurring in severe issues in doing something similar.

      However, in some countries (e.g. Europe) you can bring the State in a trial. If you have enough energy and money.

      I wish you all the best with the next steps.

      S.

      1. Hi Simone, One of the selling points of the Mm2H was that it was, for the most part, unchangeable for future renewals. But I’ve certainly learned that isn’t the whole truth. I’m very sad to feel kicked out of a country I’ve so loved. But we have no way of changing things and as I wrote, the writing is on the wall.

        Watch this space for all our future changes.

    26. I read the DG’s briefing as focused on the 35 to 50 age group with limited reference on the 50+ ie the silver haired retirees (that I understood MM2H was originally intended).

    27. Tq great wtite, all well explained. My small group in Ferringgi mostly home owners, really distressed. Yes I made Malaysia my home 2013 nothing to go back to! Now I was just about to buy a car, no more thoughts on that purchase.

      Even “if” Gov said really sorry do please stay on original 10yr terms, I/we’ve lost “Trust” in the Gov.

      I look now at other friendlier options, Malaysia I’d loved you, loved the locals, I’ve been made most welcome, I’ve helped the locals as much as I can. I know they hurting lots!

      Good by Malaysia so sad to have plan to leave!

      1. Hi Peter, Thank you. So many are really distressed, especially the homeowners. For sure the Malaysians are all hurting right now, we all do our best to help where we can. It’s all very heartbreaking.

    28. I’d be pissed off too!! It does seem like a big money grab… I hope that the next place you land appreciates you more than Malaysia! Safe travels my friend…

    29. I’m not sure why you call these “proposed requirements/changes”. According to the press announcement have these requirements/changes been approved by the Cabinet in July 2021, during two of their meetings. So you can remove the word proposed from it.

      1. Hi Jeroen, I wrote “proposed” because none of the MM2H agents have had confirmed info about these changes. Yes, they went to the media about it but what is said in the media isn’t always the final outcome. Until the MM2H agents have it in writing or it is confirmed by them, I’ll keep hoping for change.

    30. It was really sad to read the latest installment. Worse yet to be left in a state of limbo not knowing what the future will bring.Personally, I would not give Malaysia another dime of my money. They’ve proven them selves to be untrustworthy and unreliable and that’s enough for me to think about leaving the country permanently. There are many other beautiful places in the world that would welcome you and Mark’s and I’m sure you know where those places are at this point in your lives. You have some difficult decisions to make going forward and I do not envy you both. Loss of trust is something that is almost impossible to recover. Time to move on… Uncie

    31. There’s no possible way that this new plan helps the country in the end. Word spreads quickly in the expat community and I’m sure other expats in Malaysia are already planning their exit. I hope you can execute a perfect jump to your next location and enjoy life there.

      1. Hi Michael, Everyone knows about this. It’s all over the news and social media. And it’s really heartbreaking. You know we’ve loved it here for so long and to see these changes come to fruition and to kick out so many of us is just heartbreaking.

    32. This short-sightedness by the Malaysian government doesn’t surprise me. I have seen the ‘shifting goalpost’ approach to expats in a number of Asian countries pre-covid and more so since the pandemic began. In parts of Asia, expats and European tourists are seen as easy prey when the going gets financially difficult.

      This will alienate existing MM2H residents, disadvantage Malaysians who benefited from the expat population, and make those who were thinking about moving to Malaysia under MM2H (like me), think twice.

      I can’t for the life of me think what Malaysia has to gain from these changes. Even if Malaysia doesn’t go ahead with the proposed changes, the reputational damage and deterrent will be felt for some time to come and Malaysia as a retirement destination may never recover.

      1. There will be other countries looking for USD and the deals will be good too. The Philippines reduced their costs, and don’t have a resigning President. Uruguay looks better than ever. Thailand seems to be as self destructive as Malaysia.

      2. Hi Brian,
        Your words ring true for so many. Malaysia has given me so much over the years, as evidenced in my blog, and my love affair with it. It saddens me that they’re thinking about making these changes and in doing so forcing so many out.

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