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Pros (and Cons) of Being an Expatriate in Malaysia

    Last Updated on February 21, 2023 by Kirsten Raccuia

    I’ll always be American but Penang, Malaysia is my latest home.  Is it my forever home? Who knows? It is for now, and we love it here.  But no country is perfect. Here are my pros and cons of being an expatriate in Malaysia.

    Pros of Being an Expatriate in Malaysia

    These far exceed any negatives that we have found here. When we moved here in 2013, we planned to stay a year and figure it out. If we didn’t like it, we’d go somewhere else. The first move is the hardest. But the second, third, fourth move gets easier; you know what to expect and how to live overseas.

    We never felt like we had to stay in Penang. And we don’t know how long we will be here. For now, it works, but if tomorrow it doesn’t, watch out Thailand, Vietnam, Costa Rica, Belize, wherever, we are moving on.

    Most Significant Lifestyle Advantages

    1. Everything is cheap

    You can lead a more luxurious life. Got champagne tastes with a beer budget? Move to Penang. You can indulge in weekly manicures, pedicures, massages, and a small shopping spree, and still spend less than the cost of a 1-hour massage in Chicago.

    2. Safety

    People don’t own guns here. Yes, there is petty crime, but nothing like the crime in the US, let alone in Chicago.

    3. Malaysia has a world-class infrastructure:

    • The highways easily rival those in America.
    • Cell phone plans are cheap and great. I pay RM69 ($16.75) for 13GB of  4G data, which I hardly use because….
    • Wifi is everywhere. We have fiber optic internet in our home, which is better and faster than we ever had in Chicago. I can’t remember the last time I had to “reset” the router here. Not everyone in Penang has fiber optics yet, but the internet is still fast and reliable.

    4. Almost everyone speaks English

    Many locals speak 3-4 languages. The Brits ruled the country until 1957 so English was taught in the schools. Some speak it better than others, but it’s definitely better than my Bahasa, Hokkien, Tamil or Hindi.

    5. Cost of living

    We live in a three-bedroom condo overlooking the Straits of Malacca. It is 2300 square feet and has four full bathrooms. We pay RM2800, which is $680. This same apartment would be thousands of dollars in Chicago. The dollar really stretches here.

    Our bedroom

    6. It’s multicultural

    In Chicago, I could go to Little Italy, China Town, Little India for a few hours, but you don’t get immersed in the culture. Living in Malaysia plunges you into other cultures, and it makes daily life fascinating.

    Indian Malaysian woman with her baby

    7. The locals are so friendly.

    They welcome us with open arms and want to teach us about their culture. I have never once felt anything but welcome in their country.

    8. Large expat society.

    At last count, more than 10,000 expats were living in Penang. They are a very active group of people from all around the globe and also welcome newbies with arms wide open.

    9. Excellent healthcare.

    Not only is healthcare every bit as good as it is in the US, no joke, but it’s also a fraction of the price. So is dental care. Literally pennies on the dollar.

    10. Climate

    Ocean view from our condo. Expatriate in Malaysia

    It is always sunny and hot here. We have bright blue skies almost all year around.

    Everyday Lifestyle Advantages of Being an Expat in Malaysia

    11. Delivery everything

    Need propane for cooking? Eggs? Chicken? Vodka? If you don’t want to leave your house, it comes to you. Usually on a scooter, which makes it all the more fun.

    Egg delivery via scooter

    12. Eating local foods

    There is a wonderful fruit man at the bottom of my street. Every day he sells local fruit directly from the farms. My sweet egg lady at the market sells local eggs fresh from the farms. I may not be eating organically, but I am eating locally, which means I’m supporting local families.

    Our fruit man with all of his fruits

    13. Travel is cheap

    I can go for a weekend and play with elephants in Chiang Mai,

    Me hugging an elephant-Expatriate Malaysia
    Singapore Skyline Expat in Malaysia

    go surfing in Indonesia or marvel at the architecture in Singapore.

    In under 4 hours, I can fly to Cambodia, Thailand, Vietnam, Indonesia, Hong Kong, Borneo. We rarely spend more than $200 for a ticket, and it’s normal to find flights for under $100. Accommodations, when we aren’t doing a home exchange, are always under $50.

    14. Clean water

    You can drink the water directly from the tap. Outside of first world countries, there aren’t that many nations where that is possible.

    15. Never have to cook again

    Malaysia is known for its cheap and incredible street food. It is cheaper to go out than to cook at home, and that is what most Malaysians and expats do.

    Busy Food Court in Malaysia

    16. It’s a nature lovers paradise

    The wildlife viewing is incredible. From our condo, we can see monitor lizards, two types of monkeys, bright-colored birds, and the occasional otter. Mark even saw dolphins the other day during dragon boating.

    Dusky leaf monkey face in tree

    17. Monthly celebrations

    Malaysians love a good festival, and everyone is welcome to join. This month we had: Georgetown Festival, Bon Odori Japanese Festival, St. Anne’s Church Festival, and a Durian Festival.


    Read more: Why we moved to Malaysia instead of Cota Rica. The real truth about being an expat.


    Cons of Being an Expatriate in Malaysia

    There are some serious frustrations for every expatriate in Malaysia. I’m not going to gloss over them and make you think life is flawless here. It isn’t. Does it mean you shouldn’t consider it as a possible place to live? I can only answer that for myself. And you know my answer.

    But these are things you should know. They might be a deal-breaker for you. I have learned to deal with them, like it or not. It is part of my experience. And for me, they don’t outweigh the excellent benefits of living in this stunning country.

    Serious Frustrations of Living in Malaysia

    1. Beaches really suck in Penang

    It’s not just the litter.

    Garbage on the beach Expatriate in Malaysia

    From what I hear, the water used to be crystal clear, but now it’s a murky mess. It’s a major trade route and a cruise port, so the waters here aren’t clear like the rest of the region. For that, we have to fly to the nearby islands, like Langkawi (a 20-minute flight) or Phuket (a one hour flight).

    2. Toilets are repulsive

    They deserve another blog post, so I can clearly explain the situation here, but suffice to say it is not pretty. In some places, you can choose from a western toilet or a squatty potty (aka a hole in the ground). But without getting too graphic, they are wet, sloppy and often paperless. I’ll save the rest of my rant for an upcoming post.

    3. What is extremely important in many western countries isn’t that important in Malaysia

    • Environment: Littering is common here, no one cares, and they assume someone else will pick it up. And the war on plastic isn’t being fought here. They think all liquids should come in a plastic bag with a straw. If you want coffee-to-go from a local place, it comes like this…Coffee to go in Malaysia. Expatriate in Malaysia
    • Safety: Even though there are seat belt laws here, they aren’t enforced. It is normal to see toddlers standing up in between grammas legs in the front seat of a car. And rarely do you see children wearing helmets while standing in the front basket of a scooter.Kids without helmet on a scooter

    4. Poor/non-existent customer service

    Staff in most stores haven’t a clue what they are selling. No one works on commission, and no one is trained. They follow you around the store just in case you want to buy something, not because they can actually help you with information. Worse is when you ask them a question, and they make up the answer because they don’t want to lose face or be embarrassed by not knowing the answer.

    Minor annoyances of Living in Malaysia

    5. There are no one-stop shops

    To get my weekly groceries, I have to go to the wet market for all the fresh foods, a dry goods store and a big box grocery store. It is time-consuming and can be annoying.

    6. Booze is expensive

    Liquor bottles

    No one can pour a decent drink, let alone a martini. Not sure how Mark and I, who have been known to imbibe a little…ok, a lot, ended up in a country where booze has a sin tax and is marked up beyond any reasonable price. But here we are.

    7. Climate

    It’s friggin hot…always. Usually with 75%+ humidity levels. No such thing as a good hair day ladies, so get used to it. I live in a constant state of sweat unless I turn on the AC. Sometimes you just want a break from the sweltering heat. But I can assure you, when I was freezing my ass off in the Greek Islands this April, I was praying for scorching hot weather.

    8. Driving is a lot like frogger. Here are the rules of the road:

    • Those lines painted on the street are merely suggestions.
    • Red lights are something you look twice at before you going through it.
    • Turn signals, what are those?
    • Rearview mirrors are useless because Malaysians love to put stuffed animals in their back window so they can’t see out of them anyway.
    • You can go the wrong way down a one-way street because you’re still only going one way.
    • Sidewalks aren’t just for pedestrians; your scooter fits on them for a reason. The pedestrians will move.
      Busy street traffic

    9. Time difference

    We are 12-15 hours ahead of all of our family and friends.

    10. Distance

    It’s so far not that many people come to visit.

    11. Mold

    Things you never thought could mold, will. Did you know cotton could mold? Nope, me neither. Leather, yes that too. Wood, believe it or not.

    The take-away…

    As you can see, there are some incredible advantages to living in Malaysia. For us, the wonderful perks outweigh the negative ones. It’s not because we ignore the problems here, it’s just that we don’t focus on them. We can’t. If we did, how could we ever find a place to live?

    There is no country without fault. That certainly includes the US.

    The question you have to ask yourself is if the benefits outweigh the disadvantages. In my case, the answer is a resounding YES. And while I may not like the dreadful aspects of life here, I’ve come to accept it. It forces me to recognize that my viewpoint isn’t the only perspective, nor is it THE correct one.

    Are you an expatriate in Malaysia? What do you think of my list? What did I miss?

    What are some of the pros and cons of your country? Comment below.

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    108 thoughts on “Pros (and Cons) of Being an Expatriate in Malaysia”

    1. I read and like your blog. I am considering moving to Malaysia. I am an American living in Indonesia and I think it’s time to move on. I been here off and on for 3 years. I was wondering what do you know about Ipoh. Someone mentioned that place to me as an affordable place to live. I have a wife who may come along hahaha. She doesn’t like the idea of moving away from family for long. But I work with about $2000 a month and am looking for a place seriously. I have been to Malaysia once and I liked it a lot.

      1. Hi Anthony, I’ve spent a little time in Ipoh, so I can’t give you specifics about the cost of living there. But I do know it is more affordable than Penang. And you can live in Penang for $2000 a month. I think you’ll find a happy place there. Good luck.
        Kirsten

      2. Only move to Ipoh if you are looking for a laidback lifestyle and nothing much to do. I was born & raised in Ipoh, it’s a pretty big city with 800k people, but it is so boring 🤭. It is very cheap though compared to KL & Penang.

    2. Hello, I want to move to Malaysia towards the end of this year. I’ve been trying to find expats groups that are not scams to talk with and find out more information. I want to go to KL, I’m a military vet who receives disability which is in the $2,000 range, would that be an issue if I’m trying to live there permanently?

      1. Hi Shawn,

        There are loads of expat groups on Facebook. Some are specific to KL. Just search for KL expats or similar on FB. You can live in Malaysia on $2000. It all depends on your needs and lifestyle, but it is doable.

        Good luck to you!

    3. Hello Kristen.
      i discovered your post while doing some research about expatriates for my degree.
      i dont know how long you’ve been in Malaysia but as a Malaysian i would like to clarify some stuff here. Dont know if you gonna read this since you posted this in 2019. (and dont know if you’re still living in Malaysia)

      1. Almost everyone speaks English
      Thank you for saying that. We really took that as a compliment. Most of Malaysians really do speak more than 2 languanges. Even when you go for movie at the cinema, you’ll notice sometimes there are 3 subtitles (english, malay, mandarin) on the screen! haha. we also have different schools here. chinese, indians, national, international. anyone can enroll in any. only the main languange used is different. if a malay enrolled in chinese school, s/he pretty sure able to fluent in mandarin.

      2. Beaches really suck in Penang
      I am the local from the east peninsular. To clarify this, the beaches along the west peninsular of Malaysia are geographically muddy. Since the strait in between Malaysia and Indonesia (kinda) narrow, the tides from the ships push the sand to the shores. This why the beaches along the east peninsular is wayyyy better. We have clearer and beautiful beaches and islands in the east. That’s why even locals from the west would come to the east only to visit the islands in Terengganu (Kapas Island, Perhentian Island, Redang Island). About the litters, idk as well since i’ve never been to beach in Penang.

      3. Toilets are repulsive
      Cant deny that. Some toilets is nice some arent. It depends. But if you love here long enough, you’ll know where are good toilets which i believe you already know how. As for Muslims, we can easily find some Mosque/Surau to stop by.

      4. Poor/non-existent customer service
      I hate it too when the worker follow us around. I understand that they may think we could directly asked for any questions but can you please just step a bit far. if i have question i’ll call for you T,T

      5. There are no one-stop shops
      Maybe there is no one in your region?

      6. Booze is expensive
      Alcohol is expensive here because Malaysia is a Muslim country. and i think even the non-muslims here dont drink much. It doesnt sold randomly at any shop and only allowed to be sell to non-muslims only. But i went to Penang in 2019, booze is not that hard to find since it’s Penang. Many non-muslims and foreigners there. I think other than Penang, KL and Melaka, you cant find booze in any 7Eleven shop around.

      7. Driving is a lot like frogger.
      Thank God you’re not living in Indonesia. Indonesians in Malaysia they are pretty impressed with the Malaysians on road bcs Indonesians road are just so stuffed. Horns evrywhere. I watched a lot of Indonesians channels reacting to Malaysia roads and they said the same.

      8. Mold
      Malaysia, placed on Equator line, a country that is hot and humid the whole year.

      alright maybe thats all? thank you so much for the compliments and the honesty. i really do appreciate that. hope you enjoyed most of the days of your stay here 😀

      1. Hi Evarose, I read and reply to EVERY message no matter how old my blog is. We moved to Penang in 2013 but at the moment, we are in the US visiting family. We have a long-term visa (MM2H) to stay in Malaysia. We’ll be heading back in 2022. Thank you for your comments. We are very lucky to live in such a wonderfully multicultural place and love our lifestyle there.
        Be well,
        Kirsten

      1. Hi Doug, Malaysia is a very safe place and I don’t think living in a rural area would be a problem at all. I do think it would be important to learn Bahasa so you can communicate with the local neighbors. I hope that helps,
        Kirsten

    4. Hello Kirsten, this post is so informative! Thank you!
      I am really interested in knowing more about the Toilet part. This might not raise a red flag for most people, but it really matters! I lived in a country where Public Toilets (even the ones in the malls) are nasty and it’s such as turn-off for life quality.

      Also, how is the food hygiene there (e.g. street food, resturant food, etc)?
      It’s very concerning that plastic are used so massively there. Super bad for the enviornment, but I guess it’s the way to keep the cost low. Do they at least use food-grade plastics? I watched some street food videos and some plastic bags really doesn’t look like reaching food-grade standard, not mentioning being degradable.
      Thanks in advance for your answer!

      1. Hi Chloe,

        Honestly, the toilets are gross. Sometimes it’s because they aren’t cleaned, but sometimes it’s because there is an inch of water in the stall. And sometimes, when they clean it, they do it by spraying water all over and not squeegee-ing it dry. It’s a total turn-off. But once you live here long enough, you get used to it, and you know where to go for the best toilets.

        We eat the street food and hawker food a few times a week and have never been sick from it.

        Yes, plastic is a major problem here and I doubt any of it is food grade. But I bring my own containers for takeaway and so do a lot of people.

        The bottom line is that it’s not the US or any other western country. It takes getting used to and more than that, it takes an open mind and patience. No place is perfect. I’m not a fan of the toilets or the plastic use, but I’ll deal with that to have the quality of life I do.

        I hope that helps.
        Kirsten

    5. Hi Kirsten,

      Is me again. Based on what I read, your expenses are $2000 a month .Does that include everything (food (grocery & eating out), house cleaning service, utilities, cell, gas, health insurance, personal hygiene products, haircut, nails, routine medical checkup & gym cost? That is crazy. Mike and I are budgeting $2000 for the rent per month. We don’t need a big place (2 bedrooms/ 2 baths with a beautiful Oceanview). Is there an oceanfront condo in Penang?

      I need to persuade Mike to retire early before 65. The plan is to visit first then come back and stay longer to see what’s it like to live there.

      When the time is right, should we apply for a 1 year visa before MM2H?

      Thank you so much! I am not giving up on my dream just because of the time it will take to accomplish it. The TIME will pass anyway! Mike needs to be ready. LOL.

      1. Hi Sandy
        My husband and I are retired here and our rent is 7200 MYR per month ( not sure how that converts for you??) but we probably pay more than most expats because we’re at the pointy end of life and like things a bit more luxurious at this stage😆😆. That is a large condo with wonderful views of both sea and mountain however there are a HUGE number of seaside condos. If you want absolute seafront you will pay premium ( as we do) however you won’t find two bedroom places- they’re all three bedroom and up( any two bedders are very old and in the builtup centre so avoid them) we budget on the same amount again for living because that makes sure we enjoy our life( we include golf membership and grooming services and lots of socialising plusI get clothes made here regularly ) but all the services you mention are so ridiculously cheap it will overwhelm you. I had an shampoo/wash/blowdry yesterday for 40 MYR and then went to the local doctor and paid 15 MYR for a standard consultation. The exceptions here are booze which is expensive ( we share a bottle of wine every night and then go out through the week so it costs us about 2000 MYR per month for booze- our biggest expense but hey- it’s swings and roundabouts here)
        Medical care ( specialist and hospital services included) is very good and very affordable so most expats don’t insure but if you do you will need to factor that in separately because it can be expensive depending on which company you use.
        I would surmise that if you can budget $2000 (I presume US?)for rent then you will live a very luxurious lifestyle in Penang. Kirsten is way better placed to advise you on visas but my understanding is that only tourist visas of three months duration will be available after Covid and MM2H (which is currently on hold until it is restructured) is the only way of being able to stay longer. Bottom line is that Penang is a fabulous place to live especially as an English speaking expat. We have never regretted our decision and our lifestyle is much more interesting and varied than it was in Australia so we know we have made the right decision. All the best with your plans Sandy

          1. Only cause you inspire me Kirsten! You provide such a fabulous précis for everyone so I just add my padding to it😆😆 I learn so much from you. I only have personal experience but your research is second to none! 👏👏👏

      2. Hey Sandy,
        Yes, that is correct. Our monthly budget, including rent, is around $2000. Our rent is under $700 and we have are across the street from the ocean (up a hill). There are loads of oceanfront condos here that won’t cost you $2000 for rent.

        There is no 1-year visa. You will have to come on a tourist visa the first time which is for three months. The MM2H offices are still not taking new applications so we have no idea what the future requirements will be regarding the program.

        Michele sums it all up very nicely (THANK YOU). We have very different budgets and we both have fantastic lifestyles! It all depends on how much luxury you want. 😀

      1. Hi Ryan, Hate to break it to you, but Malaysia is in fact 16 hours ahead of San Francisco. 14 hours ahead of Chicago and 13 hours ahead of Miami. Check out this website for more details.😊https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/converter.html

    6. Hello Kirsten,

      How are you? I just discovered your blog and find it helpful. 🙂 I am considering moving to Malaysia for retirement after spending three nice vacations there and liking it very much. I have a concern though that I’d appreciate your response to, and I hope I am able to express it in a way that doesn’t offend you or anyone else.. Based on my experiences living overseas I have found the majority of expats tend to lean left politically which is fine except sometimes there is an assumption (perhaps) that I do too. As a result, on occasion I will find myself in a social situation where someone (could be another American) decides to openly express their less-than-flattering views regarding America or Trump, etc. without considering that it might be impolite. I know this can happen back home but it has happened more often after I moved overseas. My question is, are those breakfast get-togethers and other social events in Penang that I’ve read about generally free of discussion about American politics?

      1. Hi Dave. A very interesting question and one I have discussed with some friends here. Yes I have also found the overwhelming majority of expats are Left leaning- I have no idea why! During the latest American turmoil I have found myself on two occasions (with some Trump bashing going on) saying “ No politics today folks”. I think most people avoid the topic because it can be contentious and any friction can be avoided if you make it clear early on that it’s not on the table for discussion. Having said that, most conversation is usually very amenable and spirited between expats and most expats don’t like to tread on toes.

        1. Hi Michele. Thank you for your reply. As a potential newcomer it’s nice to hear that American politics is not a common discussion topic at expat gatherings there. Yeah, last year I was at an event where a Canadian gentleman went on some glorious tirade about America (the Great Satan), and at some point I had to ask if it would be ok if I could finish my dinner before he carried on. On the bright side, after getting to know me a little, I truly believe he now thinks America is the Ok Satan. 😀 Penang sounds like a lovely place to live. Cheers.

          1. Hi Dave,
            I really appreciate you asking that question. And Chele’s answer is spot on. We’ve been here for 7 years and I’d say 90% of my friends here have no idea what my political thoughts are. We don’t talk about it. I prefer it that way. However, I must admit that for some reason non-Americans tend to be the loudest voices about hating American politics. So when people do begin to spew anything, I usually cut them off and say, like Michele, “no politics, please.” I think if you establish that upfront, all will be well. And you will find your tribe of people (Chele, I’m looking at you😉) who you can speak freely with about politics no matter what side of the coin you are on. It’s a real shame that politics cause the breaking up of friendships. I am a huge proponent of let’s agree to disagree and still be great friends. But not everyone follows that rule of thumb.

            1. Hello Kirsten. Thank you for your thoughts, I really appreciate it. I agree with everything you said. 🙂 Thanks to you and Michele, I feel much more comfortable about living in Penang someday. It’s really good to know that I’m not alone and that most expats living there are quite thoughtful and considerate. It sounds like a great community of folks. 😀

        1. Hi Jay, That depends on what you think is suitable. You CAN swim on all the beaches. The water just isn’t very clean. With all the dredging and cruise ships it gets mucky sometimes. And we have jellyfish at times. I hope that helps.

    7. Hi, thanks for a very informative article this will be very helpful in making the decision to move to Malaysia. I’m not sure if you can help me with this but what is the best part to live in with kids I mean is it better to stay in Kuala Lumpur or opt for another big city.
      Thanks

    8. Hello,

      Thank you for creating this blog. I am trying to move to Malaysia this Feb 2021 but I am getting so many different conflicts. I don’t have all the requirements for the RP-T.

      How can I come to Malaysia for longer than a month so I can work towards the RP-T.

      I work remote for a large Aerospace company and would be working there.

      I am find it hard to go there and stay longer than the 90 days allowed. Can someone help and point me in the right direction? I am trying to relocate to Johor Bahru.

      1. Hi Chasity,

        Thank you for being here. I really don’t know about working visas or talent passes because I’ve never had one. So, I’m not the right person to give advice.

        Maybe you can reach out to some of the expat Malaysia facebook groups?

        Kirsten

    9. Hi Kirstin!!
      Great info, thank you so much. I’m currently on a 5 yr plan to retire in Malaysia with my husband and my mother . Our ages will be 53, 55, and 89, so I am doing a lot of research on the MM2H visa. I know it’s on hold right now, but I do have 5 years. Are there people that can assist you in the visa process in Malaysia or in the USA? Do you have any contacts? My husband and I wont have SSI or pensions yet, but we have rental income. Does that count as income for the program? My elderly mother would have SSI and pension. I’m pretty sure we would be very comfortable there.
      Currently looking at the Johor Bahar area due to proximity to Singapore (we love SIngapore) and access to their airport. What are you thoughts?
      I would love to pick your brain!!

      1. Hi Sara Lyn,

        Thanks for being here. I do have great contacts for the MM2H program here in Malaysia. And I would def suggest using an agent to get you through the process. They will make your life easier. Yes, MM2H is on hold because they are restructuring it so no one knows what the requirements will be or how the program will look in the future. There is no point in contacting an agent until the program is up and running.

        I can’t give you much info about JB because I’ve never been.

        I hope that helps.
        Kirsten

    10. Hi there, thanks so much for the site, it’s extremely informative. My question is how hard is it to get a residency permit or whatever one needs to stay long term. I have a 1300USD deposit once a month. Would that cover my expenses? Small studio or one bedroom would suffice. Does staying long term have any hoops to jump through?
      Thanks in advance and I long your site.

      1. Hi Timothy,

        So glad you found me and my site is helping you along. Right now everything is on hold with visas so I can’t tell you much. Things should start back up in 2021. They are restructuring things so who knows what the changes will be. Mark and I live on about $2000USD here. Your cost of living really depends on you. Check out my cost of living post for more details. https://sandinmycurls.com/cost-of-living-in-penang-how-to-budget-for-expat-life/

        I hope that helps.
        Kirsten

        1. Nice post. Appreciate your POV, a good insight.

          Just finding the article a bit contradictory as firstly u said, “if u have a taste for champagne but have money for only beer, then come to Malaysia.”

          And then u said, “Malaysia has a high sin tax on alcohol, why am i even here?” ;p

          im so confused, so as an American, does the booze here cheaper or not? ive debated this with EU/US foreigners ive met while travelling, and had no solid conclusion yet lol.

          say, how much is one small bottle of a typical beer from 7eleven in Chicago? 3 dollars?

          well a small bottle of beer costs roughly the same at usd 3 in a malaysian 7 eleven. malaysia may have the highest alcohol tax in the region, but comparing a small bottle of beer found in local 7 eleven, a small bottle of beer is only roughly ONE USD more expensive compared to Thailand/Indo.
          Vietnam is the cheapest with less than 1usd for small bottle.

          my personal opinion is some expats are serious drinkers, when they come to South East Asia, they can stretch their dollars (in all other areas) for months/years compared to how they live back in their original country,
          except that the alcohol is priced similarly with their hometown, it kinda grinds their gears i guess.

          guess u never been inside a Singaporean bar? then u will know what is expensive.

          i suggest Vietnam for very cheap alcohol and living cost, with great scenery and friendly locals, but at a cost of english language barriers and lack of basic modern infrastructures. AND, they have winters!

          Cheers!

          1. Hi Amir,
            Thanks for commenting.

            Sorry to confuse you. Let me clarify. Booze is very very cheap in America compared to here. In Chicago, a 1.75 liter of vodka is less than a liter of it here. A bottle of Grey Goose in Chicago is around RM103, here is it RM265. Same for Tanqueray gin and… and …and… I could go on. Even at a duty-free, liquor is much more expensive. I have been to a few Singaporean bars, as well as many bars in NYC, and many other expensive cities, but I don’t live there. I live in Malaysia where we can eat a good meal for RM5 so to pay RM265 for vodka is ludicrous.

            We didn’t move here to drink, but it is something that we enjoy.

            Hope that helps.

    11. This was so informative!
      I do have one question though – how is the social life? Do Indians stick with fellow Indians, Malays with Malays etc? Or is this good intermingling of races like in the US?

      Also how is the education system? Would you consider KL a good place to raise kids?

      Thanks

      1. Hi Fiona! Thank you for being here!

        The social life can be fabulous, but it is what you make it. The locals in Penang do intermingle with each other and expats. It all depends on the circles you are in.

        I don’t have kids but have loads of friends who have kids here. They all go to international schools and speak very highly of them.

        It’s really hard to answer your question about raising kids in KL because I don’t live there. But it is a big city, just like any big city in America. Penang is a very easy and safe place to live and if we had kids we wouldn’t think twice about raising them here. I hope that helps.

        Kirsten

    12. Hello, I am Currently living in Panama and considering spending sone time in Malaysia in the near future…however, I do love to smoke marijuana daily as I am a combat veteran with PTSD and good marijuana allows me to have a much better quality of life and not suffer with anxiety. I know this part of the world is very “anti-drug and Marijuana is still taboo and has potential of severe penalties…In Panama it is “illegal still” but not enforced very much and you can easily just pay the police if you had a problem in MOST cases. Can you tell me from an expat “on the ground” how easy or prevelant it is for expats in the area to acquire good herb locally and not have any problems? Also, I have 4 children that are “American based homeschooled” and Panamanian wife…is Penang good and safe for expat families wife small chilren (2 young girls and 2 older boys? Any info would be greatly appeciated! Thanks!

      1. Hi Tim,

        Since pot is a daily necessity for you, I think you better look elsewhere. The penalties here are pretty severe, and they are enforced.

        I think there must be a lot of other countries which will fit your needs better than Malaysia.

        Good luck to you.

    13. I’m always curious as to how a Midwesterner would find life in Malaysia. Glad that you’ve found it to your liking. I’ve been to a few major cities in the US and found Chicago to be my favourite. The other cities didn’t impress me at all.

      Also, KL is more like The Loop or Downtown LA, where everyone gets in and out of work. Most people are living in nearby suburban cities like Petaling Jaya (PJ) or Subang Jaya, where the standard of living is much higher (but cost a little more too). I live and conduct business in PJ, and hardly cross the porous borders into KL.

      A lot of local KLnites actually despise their city and have since shifted towards the aforementioned cities. Most of the ex-pats in KL would be living in the nicer areas like Mont Kiara or Bukit Damansara congregation, where most of the people living there are foreigners, save for the few wealthiest Malaysians.

      For those interested in the MM2H programme, one basically needs a certain amount of savings in a local fixed deposit account, medical insurance, etc.

      1. Hi Magnus!

        Thank you for commenting! And for loving on Chicago, it’s a great city!

        We love KL for a big city weekend but living there would be a totally different vibe than lil ol Penang. I haven’t spent any time in PJ though, maybe next time.

        Take care and stay well!

        1. Do you know if its possible to find work in Malaysia that meets the requirements for Employment Pass II? It requires 5000RM per month. I work in IT/Software Support as a Level 2, I have a bachelor’s and 4 yrs experience specific to this field. I read some sites that say it’s impossible others that say it is…We will also be in Penang near USM. Do you know how I might find employers open to hiring foreigners any remote global companies you can remember there?

      1. Hi Mohammad,

        It’s hard to say what region is the best. It depends on what you are looking for. KL is great for city life, Penang for laid back small city life with the ocean, Kota Kinabalu for great access to nature. It all depends on you.

        And of property values depend on where you move. However, I don’t recommend buying a place until you know you want to be here for a long time. Resale values aren’t the best and it is usually cheaper to rent than to buy.

        Hope that helps,
        Kirsten

      2. most of Malaysia IT companies are located in Cyberjaya. its basically Malaysia’s own Silicone Valley.

        Penang also have some companies, but a lot lot smaller in numbers.

        As a Level 2 IT Support, they mostly hire local malaysians or foreign Asean students who finished study in Malaysia.

        For IT industry, they will only hire foreigners if therea vacancy in at least the lowest managerial position, or at least a software engineer.

        why pay >RM6000 for Level 2 work when they can hire fresh locals and pay them like RM4000?

        But you can try, its not impossible. Its just very rare. in the IT industry at least.

    14. Hi Kirsten We have been expats for years in the Middle East, Qatar. That will change within the next few years. I have until 2023 then it’s retirement at 65. But it’s not a rosy picture. Based in South Africa and having dual citizenship with the UK. Both want my hard earned money and both will tax me heavily if I stay for more then 90 days . So need a place for 6 months of the year. Your article was excellent and to the point with good and bad things. In your travels where is the nicest place in Malaysia at reasonable price for a 6 month period. I would have no concerns with the what you have pictured , but I know my wife would take time to adapt 🤔 Your pointers would be highly appreciated. P.S. we intend to explore when the gates open again . Take Care during these Covid-19 times.

      1. Hi Howard!

        Welcome to my Sand in My Curls!

        I hear ya about the taxes. As an American, we will be taxed even if we live on Mars!

        I’ve never been to Qatar but lived in Cape Town for 2+ years and fell in love with it! Can’t wait to get back one day.

        In my opinion, Penang is a perfect place for 6 months. There is a large friendly expat scene here so you and your wife would immediately be embraced–making it easier to adapt. Also, almost everyone speaks English here, so there won’t be any struggles with communicating. I def suggest coming here to check it out (when possible).

        I hope that helps a bit.
        Keep in touch, I’m happy to help.
        Kirsten

        1. Dear Kirsten

          Fantastic. Will plan our trip to also take in other locations like Thailand. We could use Penang as our base and travel out from there exploring and finding the perfect location for us.

          Take Care 👍

          1. Hi Howard,

            That’s a great plan.

            Air Aisa has super cheap flights to Thailand and all over the region.

            Let me know when you plan to travel and I’ll help connect you with people here!

            See you soon,
            K

    15. Hi Kristen…

      As a Malaysian … I’m proud to read it … but I also agree about toilets … highways … beaches … All that is difficult to change … but not impossible … maybe someday …So sorry about that…

      Have u ever been to terengganu …
      Many islands and beautiful beaches …
      If u plan holiday to terengganu or all about terengganu? Just let me know…

      Take care…

      1. can you explaim the cost of electricity and other utilities. How much does internet cost?

        Thinking about moving to Malaysia. Which city could you recommend.?

        1. Hello Talha! Welcome and thanks for commenting!

          I have an entire blog post about the Cost of Living in Penang. Check it out here https://sandinmycurls.com/cost-of-living-in-penang-how-to-budget-for-expat-life/

          Regarding which city, well that’s a hard one because I don’t know your taste. If you want the big city, there is only Kuala Lumpur. Otherwise, I am partial to Penang. But there is also Malacca, Ipoh, Langkawi, Kota Kinabalu, & Kuching. It really depends on you.

    16. Kirsten
      I have visited Malaysia several times now and really love the city of Ipoh, Malacca and Penang. I live in San Francisco, California and would like some insights & help in applying for the MM2H Program. Interested in moving to places like Ipoh or other places where the living is more or less rat race. Quiet, peaceful and close to transportation & affordability.

      Would like to know what is the cost of the Program, Visa Fees etc. and process and procedures to applying for the MM2H Program.

      Ryan

    17. Hi Kirsten,
      A great article and completely agree with the points you have raised. In fact I have been living with my family for 4 years in Penang too! Absolutely love it here. I have been a fan of SE Asia ever since backpacking here 20 years ago. Meeting and marrying a Chinese Malaysian girl in London and we made the move with our kids to Penang in 2016.
      I lived in Thailand many years ago and although a huge fan I have to say that Malaysia is more family friendly. Settling here is very straight forward and apart from the odd frustration thats partly cultural and language wise, it’s really easy to get set up here.
      I do not imagine moving back to the UK anytime soon.
      Whatever you’re budget or lifestyle you want, you can have here. The only thing is if you’re expecting the party atmosphere of Thailand then you may be a little dissappointed.
      Thanks and maybe one day bump into you in Penang.
      Adam

      1. Hi Adam!

        I can’t believe we’ve never met! Let’s make that happen as soon as the MCO is over and we are allowed out to play! Would love to meet you and the family!

        And you are so right, there is no party atmosphere here, but other than that we pretty much have it all!

        I look forward to meeting you one day soon!
        Until then!
        Kirsten

      2. I definitely agree with family friendly. lol.

        As u all know, one of the main income of Thailand is tourism, and one of the main branches of Tourism is? well Sex Tourism. Thats why there are gogo bars and bangla roads in pretty much every damn thailand city.

        Malaysia is a lot more reserved, or at least its all happening behind closed doors, not openly, well at least thats one good thing about living in a Muslim Country. ha.

    18. Hi Kirsten

      Astute and accurate observations about the realities of life in Malaysia.
      To your comments on driving, I would add that:
      “Motor cyclists and cyclists come at you from unexpected directions because they subscribe to the belief that the shortest distance between two points is a straight line.”
      I haven’t been to a beach in Penang for many years now (being an ex-Penangite now living in Sydney for the last 20 years) but in my childhood memories the beach at Muka Head (where the lighthouse is located at the north west of the island after Teluk Bahang) was in pristine condition in the 80’s. Not sure whether it is still open to the public as it is in a National Park. Have you been there?

      1. Hi BG!

        You are sooooo right about the driving! I’ve never looked so many ways before crossing the road!

        I have been to the National Park. Hiked around to Monkey Beach and Turtle Beach. I haven’t actually hiked up to the lighthouse but Mark has.

        Muka Head is still open, but sadly it’s not the pristine water you remember. Or that you now have in Sydney. I’ve heard the water here used to be that glorious tropical azure color, but now that is not the case. We have to fly to the Perhentians or Tioman for that.

        Do you come back to Malaysia often?

        1. Good morning Kirsten

          Same in Ho Chi Minh City – motor bikes galore but somehow very few accidents as everybody (but new visitors) understand the “traffic” rules. Manila’s tarffic is also bad in terms of congestion.

          Sad to hear that Muka Head beach is no longer pristine – the price of progress and the loss of innocence I guess. East Coast beaches are generally better as they face the South China Sea rather than the polluted Straits of Melaka and there is less development there. Beaches in Sydney are very good, minimal or pollution generally.

          I try to get back to Malaysia once a year. My next trip back is supposed to be in October depending on what happens with COVID-19.

          Raccuia, is that an Italian name?

            1. Haven’t been to Sicily but have been to the Italian Alps.

              Hopefully if the CVID-19 situaton improves by then, I should be in Penang.

              Stay safe and cheers

                1. Hi Kirsten

                  Would love to do that when I am there, could even try one of the hidden bars as well.

                  COVID-19 is disrupting life everywhere and the duration and lengths of travel restrictions are uncertain at this time. There should be more clarity in a couple of months.

                  In the meantime, take care and stay safe.

                  Cheers

    19. I assume that one will need to apply for MM2H in order to live or retire in Penang. Could someone shed light on MM2H application process. Do I need appoint an agent to help with MM2H application? Or is the application process straight forward enough that I could handle it myself?

      1. Hi Terry,

        I wouldn’t recommend doing it on your own. Having someone who knows the ropes handle all the headaches will make your life much easier.

        Do you mind if I send you a private email about this?
        Kirsten

        1. Elaine Wikkramatilleke

          Hi Terry,
          We are considering retiring in Penang. We will be there in two weeks to check things out. Do you have any recommendations for lawyers who can help with the MM2H visa?

          1. Hi Kirsten, it’s Mom here. I agree with everything you said. Although I miss you so much, Penang is also in my heart. It’s a beautiful place even though it has some disadvantages like the toilets. Every time I visited you I found a new and exciting experience around the corner. You and Mark chose well and I look forward to my next trip back to you And Penang

        2. Hi Kirsten,

          I’m from India and have been visiting Malaysia a lot over the past few years.

          Must say your piece is very well written and most if not all your observations are spot on.

          I would like your help in applying for the MM2H programme and also let me know (if you can) what the pros of staying there on a MM2H are over just staying on a long term visa. From here we can get a one year visa at a very reasonable fee.

          Thanks in advance ‘
          Best
          Ajit Singh Bindra

          1. Hello Ajit,

            Welcome to Sand in My Curls! Good to have you here! And thank you!

            A long term visa wasn’t an option for us so I really can’t speak about it. I can put you in touch with my MM2H person in a private email if that is ok with you. If you KNOW Malaysia is for you, then getting an MM2H certainly makes it easy. Yes, it is probably more money but it is a 10 year + guarantee. Reapplying every year might prove challenging if they change the rules. However, if you just want to test drive Malaysia, a 1-year visa is a great option.

            I hope that helps a bit, and let me know if you want me to connect you with my MM2H guy).
            Be safe and stay well,
            K

            1. Thanks for your prompt revert,
              Would be great if you could pass on your MM2h agents
              contact details or email address, shall study the option
              in detail.
              Kind regards

              1. Hi Ajit,

                Of course. I sent you an introduction email. Let me know if you have any other questions.

                Do you think Penang is the place for you or are you considering a different spot n Malaysia?

    20. Hi Kirsten,
      How do you make friends when you move to a new country? Let’s say you decide to retire in Penang and are not going to work, wouldn’t it be quite hard to meet and make new friends?
      Perhaps you could share your experience on this.

      1. Hi Terry. My husband and I moved here as retirees. I joined all the expat Facebook pages the 12 months prior to our move then when we arrived we went to all the coffee morning where expats meet up every week. I made many new friends here! And they are all so inclusive and warm. Join your clubs of interest eg golf and go along to every function that is advertised on the Facebook pages because everyone wants to make friends. It won’t take long at all!!

          1. Hi Terry,

            Some of the best FB pages are Partners in Penang, Penang Island Community, Penang Expat Women, Expats in Penang, PERC (Penang Expat Residents Community), Expat in Penang.

            Also, sign up for the Penang Free Sheet which tells you the weekly happenings. And Spriral Synergy too. That has interesting local tours and stuff for sale from expats leaving.

            1. HI there again,
              I assume that you hold the MM2H visa to stay in Penang. Did you need an agent to apply for MM2H? Or is it something we could handle ourselves?

      2. Hi Terry,
        I think Michele is spot on! You have to start joining everything before you even move. I think that is key. get on every expat forum, group, facebook page, for the area you want to move to and ask questions. Are there any fixed expat groups? Coffee mornings? Wine dinners? Quiz nights? Whatever. Then go to them all when you arrive.

        And you have to say “Yes” to everything once you are there. I am not retired but I work from my home office so I don’t go to a workplace and meet people. When we first moved here, we literally said yes to EVERY event, or social gathering out there and met hoards of people that way. I didn’t connect with them all, but the ones I did connect with are still my besties here.

        Now we have to schedule nights to stay in because there is so much going on all the time.

        Expats always want to meet other expats. They want to help the newbies because they’ve been through it already. Just reach out and you’ll find yourself a community.

        I hope that helps! Email me if you want to discuss further. I am happy to help you find your tribe in any way possible!

        Kirsten

    21. Syed muhammed naquib adhzeem Alhindwan bin syed putra

      All the cons that you listed can easily be avoided if you just stay in a City like Kuala Lumpur…with your rent range you could easily get the luxury life in KL..swimming pools, luxury condos, security, no more repulsive toilets..all are potty toilet here..no holes on the ground 🤣😂
      And groceries is a bit expensive here but the grade is the same as in Chicago I think…
      Open youtube and see an expats like japanese they live like Kings in Kuala Lumpur…expensive condos, walk in closet..etc….
      Im a local and Im a bit jealous myself…LOL

      1. Kuala Lumpur is a fabulous city and we are headed there tomorrow for a few days of indulgent fun. However it is really just another huge bustling city…yes, fabulous buildings and restaurants and shops but really ….a heartbeat?? No…I’ll take my beautiful Penang with its history and culture and easy living every day!!

        1. Penang is the best place to visit or stay in Malaysia. Everywhere is reachable easily. The food is great and affordable. Most of all the people are warm unlike the urbanites in the big city like Kuala Lumpur. The cons you are experiencing in Penang could be a longer list in KL. So stay put in Penang and enjoy your life to the fullest.

      2. Hi Syed,

        Thank you for reading! And I love your commentary! However, I have to respectfully disagree on a few things… I’ve spent time in KL and there are just as many nasty toilets and just a much litter. There are some very wonderful things about KL as well. For sure there is better customer service and some beautiful homes. Every place has its pros and cons. I love visiting KL for a few days but living there isn’t for me.

        Take care!
        Kirsten

      3. Penang is the best place to visit or stay in Malaysia. Everywhere is reachable easily. The food is great and affordable. Most of all the people are warm unlike the urbanites in the big city like Kuala Lumpur. The cons you are experiencing in Penang could be a longer list in KL. So stay put in Penang and enjoy your life to the fullest.

    22. Arulnathan Gynasegaran

      As a Malaysian, I believe your observations are rather accurate. Perhaps I would only say that the humidity is actually higher closer to 100%.

      We also have rain and lightning almost 280 days in a year.

      Unfortunately as a Muslim majority nation, alcohol is heavily taxed.

      I also absolutely love your point on the non existent customer service. It is exactly as you observed. As a local I’ve gotten accustomed to assuming that the staff will not be able to help you and don’t bother asking any further questions. Google seems to provide much clearer answers.

      1. Hi Arulnathan!

        Thanks so much for being here!

        Your additions are spot on! And booze is silly $$$ because of the sin tax. Although it hasn’t stopped me from drinking!

        But even with all the cons… I believe the pros tip the scale to the positive side for sure!

        1. Penang’s our favourite holiday destination – go there every year.
          We have contemplated getting a condo one day with retirement beckoning.
          We find it easier to take a Grab – inexpensive & convenient – than drive which is the plan if & when I lived there.

          1. Hi Robert!

            Thank you for reading!

            I love that you come every year, so you know what to expect. I know many people that move here sight unseen, which I never recommend! You already know the ins and out!

            Yeah, driving was scary at first and they didn’t have Grab/Uber when we moved here. But now I’m a old pro!

            Next time you come for a visit, reach out. Mark and I would love to meet you and grab a bite, coffee, wine, whatever!

    23. Thank you for your very enlightening list of pros and cons. My list for here in Thailand would be very close to yours but I do wonder about the influence of religion on society there, and how it impacts your life. I’m personally an atheist and have a kind of live-and-let-live outlook on other’s people’s beliefs, but I’m not keen on living somewhere where the dominant religion really impacts my life. Here in Thailand it’s 99% Buddhist which is probably the most low-key religion out there. I appreciate your thoughts and any insight you have for Indonesia also.

      1. Hi Michael,

        Thanks for reading. And I appreciate you asking about the religion here because it is a major issue for a lot of people, especially those who have never been. I can only speak from my experience.

        I don’t think much about it because it plays no part in my life and doesn’t affect me or anyone I know in the least. We are all free to celebrate how/if we choose.

        Mosques, temples, and churches are within walking distance to each other so you can be walking into a Buddhist temple as the call to prayer starts. It’s this multicultural society that we fell in love with.

        None of the local religions have an impact on my life. But religion plays a large part in the daily life of locals. It is celebrated outwardly. But that is for everyone. Not just Muslims. Malaysia has Buddhists, Taoists, Christians, and Hindus as well, and they all celebrate freely and openly. The Muslims must abide by their rules just as any other religion.

        It is also a live and let live ideology here. Malaysia has been a melting pot since inception.

        I hope that clears up any questions you might have about the religion here. If not, let me know. I’m happy to continue the convo.

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